SHIFTER’s Kevin Bourne recently sat down with film director, RaMell Ross, to talk about his Golden Globe and Critics Choice Award nominated fiction feature film directorial debut Nickel Boys. Transcribed and edited for clarity and brevity.
Kevin Bourne: How did it feel to have producers at Plan B Entertainment choose you as the guy who was supposed to tell this story?
RaMell Ross: I mean, not only was I confused, I was also like, “Are you sure?” Honestly, it was obviously an honor, but more so I wondered if they knew what they were getting into because I know me, and it seemed like they knew what they were getting into and they were happy to do it.
Kevin: Obviously, the book is a Pulitzer Prize winning book. Was there added pressure of adapting an award-winning book?
RaMell: I think there was added pressure, but it was less about quality and what it would be and more that I knew this was an unprecedented opportunity and I did not want to fail to the extent that people would be less inclined to give others the opportunity. It seemed like it could be a door opening thing, because how many Black people do you know who have gotten carte blanche imagination space that I’ve gotten on a Pulitzer Prize winning book? So if I didn’t do a bad job then maybe someone else would and that seems like the biggest honor.
Kevin: At what point did you decide it was going to be a POV (point of view) film?
RaMell: Right away. Well, right after I read the book. I mean, I didn’t decide it. But that was the first idea and I mentioned it to one of the producers, Jocelyn Barnes, and she was into the idea. And so I never looked back from there, which is interesting, because it seems radical, but for me, it just seemed like the most natural thing to do. It’s kind of how I filmed Hale County This Morning, This Evening, the film I made previously.
Kevin: I found it interesting that you said you were a photographer because I feel like with the film there’s symbolism there, but it’s not fully explained and the viewer has to piece things together and make sense of it, kind of like a photograph. The viewer has to make sense of it for themselves and I found the film did that as well. Was that a carry over from photography?
RaMell: Exactly. It’s about making an image that is complex enough for you to miss the metaphor, the symbolism and all of the meaning, because it just has the visual interestingness, that is what it looks like through someone’s head. When we look out the window and we see something happened, there’s so much information, but once we start to analyze it, it’s like, “Woah, that could mean this, and this also has this meaning”, but otherwise it’s so dense that it just feels like we’re looking; we’re just alive
Kevin: I didn’t realize it until I said it out loud, but what I liked is that it wasn’t a Black trauma movie. Usually with films like these I’d leave feeling angry, but the tone wasn’t angry. Was it intentional for you to not make it specifically a Black trauma film?
RaMell: Yeah, it was definitely intentional, but it was also how I think about art and making things. And so my photography in Hale County This Morning, This Evening is just in dialogue with what it feels like for me to be a Black person in the world and look through my eyes. The concept of blackness is, of course, integrated into my psyche, but I’m not walking around thinking about Black trauma, but all their symbolism is there all the time. It’s easily read, but I’m also just a person who’s looking at the world in trying to navigate it. And so that alignment, to me, is that complexity that is the Black experience and every race has their version of it, but for us, it’s that duality. Like, is this a dangerous moment or isn’t it? Is race going to come into play here or is it not gonna come into play here? It’s always coming in to play. Or Is it? Even that weird, bizarre tension.
Kevin: You mention the word ‘symbolism’. I feel like there’s a lot in there that can still be symbolical of the Black community today, even though we’re not literally in those kinds of institutions. Did you feel that reading the novel and writing the script?
RaMell: Yeah, you realize if you read Dubois’ “The Souls of Black Folks” you’re like, how was his dude writing this in 1930, 1920 and all you have to do is just change a few words and it’s like the exact same? You know, it’s kind of bizarre. It makes you really question what ideas of progress are and helps you understand the way that racism, or whatever you’d like to call the social constructs that often limit the way in which people see us and our upward and sideways mobility, and they just evolve and just peak up in these really strange ways.
Kevin: I think you mentioned this was your first fiction feature film. So how, if at all, did the preparation differ from doing your doc?
RaMell: Well, for the doc, there was no prep. It was just me with my camera, literally with my boys, former students, and former kids I coach just living life and having a camera with me, and so complete free reign; no time limits. With this, there were 1000 people involved and I think that collaborative process was the most fulfilling and the most difficult in which there’s always a lot of decisions being made. You have to articulate more things, and you have to articulate your intuition, as opposed to just walking and following your intuition. And a lot of prep. Everything was meticulously pronounced on paper before it happened.
Kevin: You also mentioned yesterday some of the technicalities of how it was made. POV style and some of the actors had to actually be camera operators. How open were the actors to acting, but also being operators?
RaMell: I think that it was most true for Daveed, because he has three long scenes and everything’s a oner in the film, in which he has a camera on his back, and he has to be aware if he turns to the left an inch or the right an inch that he can cut off a person’s face. He has to be aware of the way that his body is oriented towards that person, and if there’s a lot of meaning there in the way you know the camera’s outside of the body and how you watch two characters interact. And so I think it was a joy for them, because you realize that actors are some of the luckiest folks because they just get to play as other people. And so in this way, they got to play as a camera operator and as a character. And then of course, Brandon and Ethan had those instances too, and I think because everyone was open to it, it was a joy for all.
Kevin: I particularly love the beginning, because you’re not seeing his face really at all, and then there’s a scene where he’s on the bus and then you finally see a subtle reflection of his face. That for me was so amazing. Can you talk about that specific scene and the use of reflections and windows to introduce the audience to Elwood?
RaMell: One thing that’s interesting about that scene is I think a lot of people miss it, and I think it’s easy to miss. We had talked about this. The film’s so dense. He’s watching two Black boys walk on the street and a white couple was walking in front of them and they jumped off the street, and they go around them, and then they get back onto the sidewalk which is just something that Is the norm for back then out of respect, and it happens super casually and super clearly. And then Elwood turns and sees himself, so it’s this weird thing where he’s witnessing the way that people are raised, and the way that people act, and then also sees himself and being like, “Wow, this is the world.” So using reflection early on was truly just a way to have the audience not abandon the process of being engaged. And then, of course, we got to the point where we could see them a bit more.
Kevin: I noticed yesterday on stage that you’re a very funny guy. Do you see yourself exploring the comedic side of cinema at some point?
RaMell: I wouldn’t call myself a funny guy. I’d call myself a goofy guy that’s begging for people to like me. I dunno. I’m unsure that the way in which I can be funny in moments translates over to any other type of funny. But I mean, I’m open to anything that’s challenging and where I can surprise myself. So you never know, maybe I’ll resurrect Keene and Peele and I’ll just be directing all the scenes with my boys, you know?
Kevin Bourne is SHIFTER’s Toronto-based editor and Senior Entertainment Reporter focusing on Black music and film & TV. He was named one of 300 international voters for the 81st and 8nd Golden Globe Awards and a Tomatometer-Approved Critic by Rotten Tomatoes.
Related content:
FILM REVIEW | NICKEL BOYS
https://shiftermagazine.com/film-and-tv/nickel-boys-film-revew