Toronto R&B artist, Haley Smalls, spoke with SHIFTER’S Yannick Mutombo about independence and her new album, The Cure IV where proves she doesn’t need a label to craft timeless music—just vision, vulnerability, and her signature sound.
“Being independent is a grind, and you definitely have to love it. I’m not anti label. I just think that when it comes to contracts, they need to be tailored to the artist”. -Haley Smalls
Haley Smalls learned the ropes of the music industry through trial and error. She started working with management companies at twelve years old, and quickly realized how much she needed to sacrifice to succeed in the traditional landscape. What she refused to relinquish was her integrity, even if it meant working independently. Since then, Smalls has garnered a loyal fanbase of hundreds of thousands of online listeners all on her own, and is taking her career to new heights with the release of her latest project, The Cure IV.
Born and raised in Toronto, Smalls said she doesn’t “remember choosing to do music”. Her parents put her in vocal lessons once they realized her potential. By age ten, Smalls knew her strengths lied in pop and R&B. Her vocal teacher encouraged her to learn classical music so Smalls could develop her upper singing range.
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“When I was coming up in the music industry, it was way more about being discovered, getting [a label] to sign you, develop you, and then hopefully put millions of dollars behind you…At one point, I remember feeling like I didn’t know if I belonged in the music industry. The path I was on wasn’t making me happy. It wasn’t about the music, the art. It was about politics, impressing people by living by standards that weren’t aligned with my moral compass.” -Haley Smalls
“My parents realized [music] was something I was good at for my age. My dad took on the ‘Dad-manager’ role, and started trying to secure opportunities for me. That’s when I started working with management companies, writing and working with producers and songwriters. I went through a bunch of bad management deals. So it’s been a journey, and those experiences [are] what has shaped the way I operate my career”, she said.
As a teenager and into her early twenties, Smalls performed for major record labels and music moguls like LA Reid, Mike Caren, and Sylvia Rhone—experiences she holds in high regard. She speaks highly of all of them, praising their legacy and insight. However, it was internal pressures from her own team at that time that led to disillusionment with industry politics and ultimately reinforced her decision to stay independent.
“When I was coming up in the music industry, it was way more about being discovered, getting [a label] to sign you, develop you, and then hopefully put millions of dollars behind you. That was the route me and my family were taking for a while. But there was a lot of shifting going on. At one point, everybody got fired from all the labels, right on the precipice of me getting a deal at twelve or thirteen. Everybody was downloading music, and labels had to regroup. And then, streaming started to become a thing. In the interim, I was depending on the people I was working with to tell me who I was. As a young female artist, that becomes very challenging, because everybody has different opinions of who you’re supposed to be, how you’re supposed to act, whether it be on stage, off stage. At one point, I remember feeling like I didn’t know if I belonged in the music industry. The path I was on wasn’t making me happy. It wasn’t about the music, the art. It was about politics, impressing people by living by standards that weren’t aligned with my moral compass”, she said.
In 2014, Smalls realized she could thrive without a major record deal. It panned out—though, Smalls isn’t against the idea of securing a record deal down the road.
“I was in rooms every day for hours with different writers, really talented writers. When you’re in that kind of competitive environment, it really pushes you to get better.
“I started cultivating a fan base online. I was on YouTube doing covers, and creating a little following for myself. When I started releasing my original music, that’s when I started to feel the empowerment of being an artist. Obviously, in this climate, there’s perks to being signed with a label. You’re going to get top tier playlists. You’re going to get that budget if you are a priority on the label. So being independent is a grind, and you definitely have to love it. I’m not anti label. I just think that when it comes to contracts, they need to be tailored to the artist”, she said.
Smalls began working with legendary producer Megaman promptly after going independent. They created a production and writing collective—Startaz—along with fellow Toronto artists Victoria DiGiovanni and Khadijah Lopez. Megaman has produced songs for artists including Drake, Lil Wayne, Birdman, Tyga, Bow Wow and Yo Gotti. This collaboration allowed Haley to sharpen her songwriting.
“I was in rooms every day for hours with different writers, really talented writers. When you’re in that kind of competitive environment, it really pushes you to get better. It wasn’t negatively competitive, it was rubbing shoulders with other people who are really good at what they do. You naturally pick up on what they’re doing and gain your confidence by being able to contribute in your way. I have written for other artists many times over the years, even stuff that I’ve agreed not to take credit for”, she explained.
The Cure IV is Smalls’ latest output with Megaman. The production is laid-back, sleek and cohesive, creating the ideal backdrop to showcase Smalls’ vulnerable songwriting and pristine vocals. There is a moodiness to the album which is occasionally punctuated by vibe-heavy moments of sensuality, and uptempo, post-breakup clarity. Smalls and Megaman’s synergy is what keeps listeners immersed.
“[Megaman] and I have been working together for a long time, so our process is pretty seamless. He’s not a person who likes to be stagnant in music, and I appreciate that about him. We started The Cure series together. We both knew what we wanted for this project. I really wanted [The Cure IV] to feel relatable”, she said.
The Cure series is deeply steeped in classic R&B, unlike Smalls’ Timelines (2024), which blended pop, R&B, and Caribbean sounds. Smalls recalled this was an intentional decision on her part, describing R&B as her “first love”.
“I love collaborating. That’s how I started to gain my confidence in writing. [But] sometimes your team gets small over the years.
“The nature of The Cure is R&B. When you think of [being] in your feels, you’re going to think R&B. [Lighting] a candle. Late night drives. The Cure series is very much [about] that heavy emotion”, she said.
Smalls penned all fourteen songs on the album—an impressive feat considering the prevalence of co-writing in the music scene—drawing inspiration both from her personal life and her environment. Granted, Smalls isn’t against working with other songwriters, and hopes to do so for future releases.
“The songs are drawn from my personal experiences, but I can get inspired by so many different things. Sometimes somebody tells me something they’re going through, or it could be a movie, a TV show. It could be something I’m imagining. I’ve had songs on my last project that I wrote based on dreams. Over the years, I didn’t want my songwriting to be limited to the things I was going through, because that would lead to writer’s block. I’ve heard songwriters say when they’re happy, it’s hard to write. At the same time, I am a person who feels deeply. Songwriting is almost a form of channeling. So you can channel a feeling you had ten years ago, or an emotion somebody else has”, she said.
“I love collaborating. That’s how I started to gain my confidence in writing. [But] sometimes your team gets small over the years. When people hear that Megaman produced the whole thing and I wrote the whole thing, it’s like, oh, she [doesn’t] want to work with [anybody] else. Absolutely not the case. I know there will be projects in the future where I’ll be collaborating with other writers and producers”, she added.
Notable tracks are “Red Light”, a 70s funk-inspired number perfect for indoor skating rink playlists, “Cheat on Me”, an uptempo breakup anthem, and the sensual, bass and synth-heavy “Makeup”. Smalls said she has no favourites, but detailed having a special affinity to “Rip It Apart”.
“I think The Cure has become, amongst my listeners, a project that people really appreciate. I would definitely continue to do the series”.
“It’s so difficult hearing people’s favorites. As an artist, you can’t see your art the way people see it. I saw all the f—k ups. I was there for all the tweaking. It’s a whole different perspective. I can’t say I have a favorite, but I will say that the first song, ‘Rip It Apart’, was [also] the first song created from the project. When I’m creating an album, I get to a point where I’m like, okay, let’s sift through the music and figure out which songs are going on this album. “Rip It Apart” is my first child. Your first child always has a special place in your heart but you don’t love that child more than your other children”, she said.
On whether fans should expect The Cure V, Smalls remains open to extending the series. For now, Smalls is working behind the scenes to take act four on the road.
“I think The Cure has become, amongst my listeners, a project that people really appreciate. I would definitely continue to do the series”, she concluded. “I would love to go on tour with this album. I’m working on a couple things to be announced. We’ll see what’s within the cards, but definitely something I’m working on”.
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